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Ragnhild, Folkefilosofen's avatar

… which leaves us with hard core mystic agnostisicism … And here I don’t take agnosticism to mean «sitting-indecisively-on-the-fence» with regards to Gods existence (agnosticism is also fairly ill-defined in daily language), but rather: the «true» agnostic position springs out of a revalation of sorts: The question of Gods existence draws our attention to the limits of our logic, and the fact that the question of Gods existence cannot ever be answered in a way that works in accordance with the demands of logic… (or the demands of crystalline purity).

When we are trapped in the idea that the question of Gods existence must be answered this way, we are commiting a thought error.

Instead, we should ask ourselves: What is a god life? (And as you say: What works?) Are religious practices helping people to lead better, fuller, richer, more connected lives? What are the «best practices», and which practices leads to hatred, division, discrimination, aggressivity, war…

It is not a matter of who occupies the «true belief», it is a question of how to live meaningfully and peacefully together in a world of conflict, hardships and great uncertainty.

This aside, for me personally there cannot be a good life without the feeling of deep awe…

For some strange reason, awe changes everything…

There is a beautiful quote by Bruno Latour: «The world is not a solid continent of facts sprinkled by a few lakes of uncertainties, but a vast ocean of uncertainties speckled by a few islands of calibrated and stabilized forms»

(See Bruno Latour, Reassembling the Social: An Introduction to Actor-Network-Theory)

And I find myself thinking and feeling that this is a beautiful thing… I am without the need for the word «God», but spiritually I need to let «the hardnosed Scepticist» clean my house, and s/he always throws out hardnosed Atheism… and the air just feels cleaner, less polluted…

This post was a great read, Åsmund ❤️ Thank you 🙏

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Leif Kent's avatar

> But what does it mean for something to work? Work for what, exactly? Often we lose the forest for the trees and point out that what works is science, because it lets us construct bridges, hospitals, and computers that we can program bass music with. I’m sympathetic, I’ve dedicated an enormous amount of time to science and bass music. But ultimately, these are just secondary endpoints. The primary endpoints are the conscious states we are seeking.

I don't think this is right. We don't just care about conscious states – we care that they correspond to a real world that exists outside of us. We care about that actual bridge, that actual hospital, and most importantly, the people inside the hospital – not just our conscious experience thereof. Nozick's Experience Machine passage in Anarchy, State, and Utopia fleshes out this thought nicely. I'd be interested to hear what you think of that one. https://rintintin.colorado.edu/~vancecd/phil3160/Nozick1.pdf

The way to rescue your claim is to say something like "well, when you press people on this, it turns out that the only feature of the external world they really care about is the existence of other minds and *their* conscious states." Personally I don't buy this, I think it's meaningful and good that we live on a rock covered in water and trees etc.

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